Overweight Tortoise update

Special area devoted to all aspects of feeding tortoises and turtles.

Overweight Tortoise update

Postby Juliet » Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:01 pm

I have updated the story of Myrtle, Apollo and Tort on the original lead a couple of days ago I think I should have started a new topic as I don't think anyone has read the update.

Would be grateful for any comments on the update in the old topic slot 'Overweight Tortoise'. Maybe any possible replies posted to this new topic slot?

Tort remains my main concern with just the occasional nibble but no real enthusiastic eating but he does eat tiny amounts sometimes. is that OK as it has been 3 weeks now since the start of the new diet. I can't help worrying I may be causing him harm in someway through him being slightly anorexic? No surprise he eats when outside but our delightful Scottish weather is surpassing itself this year and so far with mid summer day fast approaching these poor torts have literally had one proper Tortoise Day, hot and calm weather. otherwise the sun is out but the wind is gale force. I am still planning/designing wind breaks/polytunnel structures but we are having their pens redesigned so everything is still 'work in progress'.

Am I OK to carry on with their tough new healthy diet excluding all pakchoi and chicory ( the junk food). Tort is definitely taking his time getting into this new health regime!

Myrtle and Apollo have been fine and although still a bit picky they do eat. Myrtle's limp seems to be improving a bit. Maybe it is just muscle weakness due to misuse living up here? But once/if we ever get any summer weather I will be monitoring her carefully and then I need major improvement or she is on the way to Edinburgh for a CT scan!

Any advise/opinion/help much appreciated

Juliet
Juliet
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:29 am

Re: Overweight Tortoise update

Postby Juliet » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:22 pm

I have just read Sandy's reply on the Horsfield feeding topic and my question has just about been answered on is it OK to carry on with a Horsfield eating very little for weeks. It appears Sandy had a tortoise not adapting to a diet for many weeks so I will press on and hope he stops his tantrum soon when he realises he is not going to get his junk food again!

Still a bit of a question about Myrtle's limp and deformities on her shell. I am assuming it is possible for her to look like this but not have MBD. And if she seems to not have MDB can I ease back on the Ca supplements ie: stop the Zolcal and just carry on with Nutrobal or would it be better tpo keep her Zolcal for now to ensure she is really over the probable historic MBD?

And if the limp is not MBD is muscle weakness after a long winter the possible cause?

Juliet
Juliet
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:29 am

Re: Overweight Tortoise update

Postby Tortoise Trust » Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:31 am

Juliet wrote:Still a bit of a question about Myrtle's limp and deformities on her shell. I am assuming it is possible for her to look like this but not have MBD.


It is entirely impossible. That would be like seeing rickets and saying there was no bone problem present.

When you see spinal depression like that, it is caused by muscle tension in the pelvic girdle effectively bending and deforming weak bone tissue. It does not - and cannot - happen unless the bone is compromised. Look closely at the bone condition in these photos:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9987

So, to be perfectly clear, where these deformities are present, there has to be MBD involved. You simply do not see this in healthy tortoises. Does not happen. Ever.

If anyone believes differently, I would really like to know:

1) What mechanism they suggest is involved
2) Know precisely how they arrived at that conclusion
3) See some radiographs of the affected animal.
Tortoise Trust
 
Posts: 8895
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Almeria, Spain

Re: Overweight Tortoise update

Postby Juliet » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:54 am

Thanks for that Andy will therefore carry on with the Zolcal for now and I am in any case still carrying on with the new diet and the Nutrobal.

I will try and get the report from Edinburgh and hopefully even the Xray for you to see it.

But certainly if you are totally convinced she has still got MBD I will still treat her for the disease. She has had Zolcal for about 3 weeks now will carry on for another 3 with Zolcal then go down to just Nutrobal?

Thanks again

Juliet
Juliet
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:29 am

Re: Overweight Tortoise update

Postby Juliet » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:00 am

Have looked at the photos in the link you sent What is the section labelled bridge? If I carry on treating Myrtle for MBD how much correction to her carapace can I achieve ? Will she be left with deformity but I can go a long way to hugely improving the appearance eg: the photos show a very pitted appearance can I to some extent make that smoother as in the wild tortise?

Juliet
Juliet
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:29 am

Re: Overweight Tortoise update

Postby Tortoise Trust » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:53 am

I would be 100% certain that the deformities you can see (even without and x-ray) are the result of MBD.

Such MBD is not entirely reversible, and the evidence that it is (or was) present remains. It cannot be undone.

What you can do is prevent it getting worse, and ensuring all new growth slow, with good bone density. Then, over time, the original damage becomes less obvious - but it is always there, nonetheless.

In a tortoise carapace, the 'bridge' section is where the plastron meets and connects with the sides.
Tortoise Trust
 
Posts: 8895
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Almeria, Spain

Re: Overweight Tortoise update

Postby Juliet » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:53 pm

Many thanks Andy. I need loads of advise and help as I just don't know how to solve this one. I have radically altered their diet. Mainly weeds just the occassional bit of kale from the garden and sometimes some frisee and raddichio but only once or twice a week. She still eats too much dandelion as there is loads in her pen but next week we have someone coming in to dig up their pen and lay down a lot more hard surface with rockeries and scattered beds of sedums etc.. - tortoise plants. So slowly I am completely changing their regime in all respects. If there is no chance that the deformaties are just historic and she no longer has MBD I will keep going with the Zolcal for now. I assume I will know when I am getting control of the MBD when her walking greatly improves?

Thank you so much for your help I will definitely keep in touch. Trying to keep these beautiful creatures is so hard - even the vets can't agree so its ridiculously difficult and when you live in Scotland as well - I am not very far off rehoming them but love them too much to let go yet. Will see how it goes in coming months

Juliet
Juliet
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:29 am

Re: Overweight Tortoise update

Postby Tortoise Trust » Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:27 pm

My suggestion would be to continue the Zolcal-D right now. Also, the new 'Climate Frame' terrarium makes a HUGE difference, even much further North than Scotland. You get warmth + natural UVB. These a very healthy, and very useful housing method for those in cool climates.

Our are not eating here now by the way, not because it is too cold, but because it just hit 42C out there.....
Tortoise Trust
 
Posts: 8895
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Almeria, Spain

Re: Overweight Tortoise update

Postby Juliet » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:36 pm

OK Andy will carry on including the Zolcal.

Felt so jealous to here your temperatures. We have 11 degrees but feels much colder a wind is from the north and strong and it has rained on and off all day. Torts have been in and out like a yoyo just simply to get even 10 minutes of real UV. We have had no summer at all so far and its nearly mid June!.

Will check out the vivarium you mentioned. Sounds great I have never heard of it so will definitely go off and get more information.

Many thanks, will get back in touch with the vet report and hopefully the XRay

Juliet
Juliet
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:29 am

Re: Overweight Tortoise update

Postby Juliet » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:46 pm

Just been on website and I assume you mean a company called Climate habitats?
Will email them and see what sort of price they are. M&A would need a very big one so may be hugely expensive but will certainly check it all out. Tort could get away with something much small.
Many thanks
Juliet
Juliet
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:29 am

Next

Return to Feeding and Nutrition

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron