Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

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Re: Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

Postby Tortoise Trust » Tue May 17, 2011 8:16 am

"at least some" ???

I am especially interested to see how this addresses the growing issue of paramyxovirus in such a situation.

Can I also ask why - if Kevin Eatwell is BCG vet liaison officer - only "some" of the regional groups are taking his advice on board, while others evidently are ignoring it? If we had regional groups (which we don't) and they ignored official advice on such an important topic they would be kicked out instantly.

That seems totally bizarre. Why bother having a vet on board if you then just ignore their advice? Maybe someone from the BCG could enlighten us?
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Re: Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

Postby Eversfield » Tue May 17, 2011 8:38 am

Tortoise Trust wrote:"at least some" ???

I am especially interested to see how this addresses the growing issue of paramyxovirus in such a situation.

Can I also ask why - if Kevin Eatwell is BCG vet liaison officer - only "some" of the regional groups are taking his advice on board, while others evidently are ignoring it? If we had regional groups (which we don't) and they ignored official advice on such an important topic they would be kicked out instantly.

That seems totally bizarre. Why bother having a vet on board if you then just ignore their advice? Maybe someone from the BCG could enlighten us?

Andy,
"Simples", I am only stating that the Regional group I attended last year had adopted the "Biosecurity" measures recommended by Kevin Eatwell, and before, you jump to further incorrect assumptions: "I AM NOT AN ORGANISER" of the one I visited last year. I merely went as an observer, and was happy to report what I saw.
As for other regional groups of which there are at least five or six others, as I have not attended their functions I do not presume to comment on their conduct.
PS; I am no longer a member of the BCG so of course, I am not claiming to be speaking for them either!!!
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Re: Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

Postby Tortoise Trust » Tue May 17, 2011 8:50 am

I was merely asking if these guidelines are properly enforced, and if anyone who is from the BCG (not yourself, evidently) would care to comment on that?
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Re: Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

Postby Sue Doxat » Tue May 17, 2011 11:08 pm

It would be most useful if members could be advised the best way for us to help reduce disease and infections. There are many commonsense things we can do which include good hygiene, isolating animals, removing old food and faeces, provision of clean water and dishes, and not mixing species or allowing them to share space with some other animals like chickens for example. Advice about the best cleaning methods would be useful to me. Im often worried about "cleaning chemicals" even the smells disturbing or harming the chelonians. Instead of people taking their animals for "health checks" perhaps some pointers for us to know how to "healthcheck" our own animals at home. Sue D
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Re: Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

Postby Tortoise Trust » Wed May 18, 2011 7:20 am

Good idea, Sue.

We will put something together on that. Regarding suitable disinfectants, we consulted with a highly qualified microbiologist and pathologist on this some time back, and came up with a workable list. The important thing to note is that there is no 'absolute universal' disinfectant, there are some very wide spectrum, high activity ones, but they tend to be quite difficult and unpleasant to use. Different pathogens have different "kill rates". You see these ads "kills 99.9% of all germs!" but this is very misleading indeed. What they really mean is "kill 99.9% of common bacteria IF you apply it correctly AND leave it in contact long enough". A quick wipe is only going to get "soft" organisms. It will do nothing for coated viruses or more resistant bacteria, mycoplasma, etc.

These products simply give a false sense of security when dealing with 'serious' pathogens (such as might be encountered in reptiles).

To give just one example of what is really needed, you only have to consult the data-sheets of the more reputable products in this field. For example, Virkon-S which is a very broad-spectrum disinfectant active against many (not all) pathogens recorded in reptiles:

"Thoroughly wet all contaminated surfaces with 1% solution. Leave for 10 minutes. Rinse with cold water".

This is a good product.. not a "toy" product like many sold to pet keepers.

One product in wide use is F10... however, this has very slow kill times against many pathogens... the instructions require "leave to dry" after application. On the plus side, it is far less toxic than many other products. The most effective, rapid-action ones tend to be quite unpleasant.

As you will note from this, a quick "spray and wipe" as used at a typical weigh-in or "health-check" is totally and completely inadequate. It does not even come close to what is required.
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Re: Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

Postby Eversfield » Wed May 18, 2011 8:10 am

Tortoise Trust wrote:Good idea, Sue.

We will put something together on that. Regarding suitable disinfectants, we consulted with a highly qualified microbiologist and pathologist on this some time back, and came up with a workable list. The important thing to note is that there is no 'absolute universal' disinfectant, there are some very wide spectrum, high activity ones, but they tend to be quite difficult and unpleasant to use. Different pathogens have different "kill rates". You see these ads "kills 99.9% of all germs!" but this is very misleading indeed. What they really mean is "kill 99.9% of common bacteria IF you apply it correctly AND leave it in contact long enough". A quick wipe is only going to get "soft" organisms. It will do nothing for coated viruses or more resistant bacteria, mycoplasma, etc.

These products simply give a false sense of security when dealing with 'serious' pathogens (such as might be encountered in reptiles).

To give just one example of what is really needed, you only have to consult the data-sheets of the more reputable products in this field. For example, Virkon-S which is a very broad-spectrum disinfectant active against many (not all) pathogens recorded in reptiles:

"Thoroughly wet all contaminated surfaces with 1% solution. Leave for 10 minutes. Rinse with cold water".

This is a good product.. not a "toy" product like many sold to pet keepers.

One product in wide use is F10... however, this has very slow kill times against many pathogens... the instructions require "leave to dry" after application. On the plus side, it is far less toxic than many other products. The most effective, rapid-action ones tend to be quite unpleasant.

As you will note from this, a quick "spray and wipe" as used at a typical weigh-in or "health-check" is totally and completely inadequate. It does not even come close to what is required.

Excellent: To be included, in the next bumper issue of the TT Newsletter?
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Re: Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

Postby Tortoise Trust » Wed May 18, 2011 8:43 am

No.

To be published on our website where it will receive wide exposure and maximum availability to those who might need it.

Stop obsessing over the newsletter. It will appear as soon as it is ready. It is a piece of paper... a means of communication... we also communicate in other ways... get over it - or get out.
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Re: Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

Postby Eversfield » Wed May 18, 2011 8:53 am

Tortoise Trust wrote:No.

To be published on our website where it will receive wide exposure and maximum availability to those who might need it.

Stop obsessing over the newsletter. It will appear as soon as it is ready. It is a piece of paper... a means of communication... we also communicate in other ways... get over it - or get out.




Communicating: This is taken, not two minutes ago from the Website!

"NEW TORTOISE TRUST NEWSLETTER MAILING TO MEMBERS NOW"
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Re: Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

Postby Tortoise Trust » Wed May 18, 2011 8:59 am

Out of date. Will update.

Can I also suggest you get the Three Counties Tortoise Society website updated as it still contains lethal advice on feeding?

This was pointed out two weeks ago. It's still there.
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Re: Chelonian Infectious Agents - from Stuart Macarthur

Postby Tortoise Trust » Wed May 18, 2011 9:47 am

New article on some basic disinfection protocols and recommended products now online.

Apologies to those who might have preferred to wait for it to drop through the letterbox...

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/disinfection.html
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