Male or Female

Post your identification, classification, and natural history questions and field reports here.

Male or Female

Postby Nina » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:32 pm

Someone has just contacted us at The Tortoise Table about a 10-year old Hermanns that she recently acquired. The tortoise had a very rocky -- if not to say traumatic -- life before it came to her and has several nasty shelll injuries where it had been attacked by a dog. It also has a good deal of pyramiding.

She recently saw what is either a male 'flashing' or a female prolapse, and she has asked us if we can say whether this tortoise is male or female (as if female then it will need other treatment in addition to the treatment that the vet is going to do for the shell injuries).

I'm not great at sexing, so I've looked at loads of photos of male and female Hermanns and really don't know. The tail is obviously way too short for a male, but in one photo I thought the cloaca looked more male, and the shape of the plastron and anal scute seemed more male. I can't see a horny tip to the tail and am I right in thinking that both male and female Hermanns have the horny tip (even though that of the male is more pronounced)? I'm wondering now if the tail could have been damaged by the dog .. .
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Here are the photos:
Image
Image
Image

Nina
Nina
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:39 am

Re: Male or Female

Postby Sandy » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:23 am

Nina wrote:Someone has just contacted us at The Tortoise Table about a 10-year old Hermanns that she recently acquired. The tortoise had a very rocky -- if not to say traumatic -- life before it came to her and has several nasty shelll injuries where it had been attacked by a dog. It also has a good deal of pyramiding.

She recently saw what is either a male 'flashing' or a female prolapse, and she has asked us if we can say whether this tortoise is male or female (as if female then it will need other treatment in addition to the treatment that the vet is going to do for the shell injuries).

I'm not great at sexing, so I've looked at loads of photos of male and female Hermanns and really don't know. The tail is obviously way too short for a male, but in one photo I thought the cloaca looked more male, and the shape of the plastron and anal scute seemed more male. I can't see a horny tip to the tail and am I right in thinking that both male and female Hermanns have the horny tip (even though that of the male is more pronounced)? I'm wondering now if the tail could have been damaged by the dog .. .
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Here are the photos:
Image
Image
Image

Nina


Looks female to me Nina:0)
Sandy
< >
\0/
/_\
Sandy
 
Posts: 2782
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:15 am
Location: Kent

Re: Male or Female --Please have a look

Postby Nina » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:39 am

Thanks, Sandy! If she's female, then it must have been a prolapse that the owner saw. I'm just concerned by the shape of the tail and the fact that there is no horny tip, and wonder if it has been damaged in some way.

Is the general consensus that it's a female (it would be great if some more people had a look before I get back to the owner)?
Nina
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:39 am

Re: Male or Female --Please have a look

Postby Joan » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:03 pm

Nina wrote:Thanks, Sandy! If she's female, then it must have been a prolapse that the owner saw. I'm just concerned by the shape of the tail and the fact that there is no horny tip, and wonder if it has been damaged in some way.

Is the general consensus that it's a female (it would be great if some more people had a look before I get back to the owner)?


I would also say female Nina, not sure that she is a Herman though! :?
Joan
 
Posts: 3227
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: UK

Re: Male or Female

Postby Tortoise Trust » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:28 pm

Female.

Joan is right. No way is this a Hermann's.

It is a North African Testudo. Need more photos to be sure, but appears quite possibly Tunisian to me.

Appears (from the damaged scutes) to have been mixed with something incompatible, to...
Tortoise Trust
 
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Almeria, Spain

Re: Male or Female

Postby Nina » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:30 pm

Thanks so much, Andy and Joan.

I'm complete rubbish at species ID, and the owner was told it was a Hermanns, so I never thought to question it. Well, if it's a female, then I think she might have a prolapse. The owner told me this afternoon that the tortoise was straining in the bath, and then she took this photo -- you can just see a pinkish-purplish blob protruding from the underside of the tail.
I'll ask her to send or post more photos so we can be sure of the species ID.
And yes, this poor tortoise has had a terrible encounter with a dog (before it came to the current owner). Her vet is going to treat the shell damage.
Image

Nina
Nina
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:39 am

Re: Male or Female

Postby Tortoise Trust » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:35 pm

Nina wrote: The owner told me this afternoon that the tortoise was straining in the bath, and then she took this photo -- you can just see a pinkish-purplish blob protruding from the underside of the tail.


Well, you can get that in females too... though not as obviously as in males.

The body shape is fairly male-like, but the tail is unusually short if it is. More photos would be helpful as we could be 100%.

I am 100% it is not a Hermann's! :lol:
Tortoise Trust
 
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Almeria, Spain

Re: Male or Female

Postby Nina » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:13 pm

Thanks so much Andy. The owner said that she couldn't get a photo of the protrusion from the underside, as " it retracted when I picked him up, but he seemed to be straining to push it out." She has just sent me two more photos to help with the ID:
Image
Image

Nina
Nina
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:39 am

Re: Male or Female

Postby Sandy » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:20 pm

If the tortoise is straining, then perhaps there are chances the tortoise has a stone lodged somewhere.
Sandy
< >
\0/
/_\
Sandy
 
Posts: 2782
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:15 am
Location: Kent

Re: Male or Female

Postby Tortoise Trust » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:44 pm

Definitely Tunisian. No doubt.

Still think female. I would x-ray if straining continues.

Keep very well hydrated.
Tortoise Trust
 
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Almeria, Spain

Next

Return to Taxonomy, Identification and Natural History

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron