New feeding article based on recent field studies

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Re: New feeding article based on recent field studies

Postby mark_w » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:49 pm

Jordi that may well be my favourite saying of all time!!! 8-)

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Re: New feeding article based on recent field studies

Postby Dave K » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:31 pm

Really insightful article, excellent.

Sorry, totally OT but I much ask Jordi if there is any truth to Catalan Nativity scenes always depicting a character undertaking the second part of "Menja bé i caga fort"? :)
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Re: New feeding article based on recent field studies

Postby Carrie » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Such an informative article - very thought provoking, thank you Andy.

I was wondering if the 5 most commonly found food remains in the stool samples were available in the UK, but am not sure exactly what they are, my guess is: lesser hawkbit, little mallow, a type of vetch, bur clover (don't think we get this do we?) and a type of bird's foot trefoil. Could anyone let me know if this is even close to being accurate please? I tried to find the names in Andy's article on this site: http://luirig.altervista.org/flora/medicago.htm
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Re: New feeding article based on recent field studies

Postby Belinda » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:32 am

There is a Catalan saying that goes:
Menja bé i caga fort: “eat well and shit hard”

Jordi[/quote]


I love that :lol:
Belinda x
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Re: New feeding article based on recent field studies

Postby Jordi » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:10 pm

I have read something about donkeys that made me think of mediterranean tortoises
-They are native from semi arid parts of the world
-They browse on poor quality pasture with high fibre content.This poor quality food travels through the hindgut at lower speed , allowing for a longer fermentation and a better assimilation of nutrients. This means that their energy requirements in the diet are lower than in horses, they are more efficient at digesting food.
-A common problem in northern countries is allowing the donkey to graze on a green field with plenty of fresh and good quality food. They very quickly become obese or have digestive disturbances.
They have hoof problems due to humidity (the small hoof is designed to walk in arid rocky areas, not humid green fields). Their hair is more permeable to the rain that the one of a horse, and water reaches the skin...

I think that the problem is that we look at things from human point of view (fresh nutritive weeds "better" than poor quality food; why hibernation if you can keep it in warm conditions…) and forget that animals are phisiologically designed for the place they inhabit.


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Re: New feeding article based on recent field studies

Postby Joan » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:50 pm

Tortoise Trust wrote:In a nutshell, from an entirely practical perspective, I think that the Alpin Testudo products are very good. I cannot say they are "perfect", exactly, as I really do think we need to do more work on establishing the exact moisture contents, balances, and such of the wild diet - but they are without doubt in a totally different league than the mass produced "junk food" pellet type diets we are so unfortunately familiar with. Totally avoid anything containing products that result in rapid fermentation: that means fine base grinds, cereal derivatives, molasses, sugars and things of that nature. The Alpin Testudo range is also properly quality controlled, with far more honest labeling than is usual in the reptile food industry. If using this type of product, look for long, coarse fibres, the absence of cereal ingredients, and a protein content below 10% on a dry matter basis. I agree with Jordi that the Alpin Pre-Testudo is well worth trying.

I have absolutely no connection whatsoever with them, by the way. So I am not saying this for any personal advantage. I have never even had any contact with them. I do, however, think they have developed by far the best source of safe, dry food on the market. That opinion is based purely upon an analysis of their ingredients and some trial reports from users all over Europe over the past few years (long enough to demonstrate some impressive real-world results, for example Per-Ander's tortoises).

So - I'd say give it a try and see how you get on. In particular, start comparing:

1) Faecal pellet consistency
2) Growth rates


Anyone found anywhere to buy this apart from http://www.reptilica.co.uk where they charge £10 postage. I guess if you were stocking up for permanent use it's ok, but a bit much just see if they will eat it!
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Re: New feeding article based on recent field studies

Postby mark_w » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:54 pm

Sorry Andy, I didn't say before but I really enjoyed the article - excellent stuff and thought provoking. My printer is knacked and I hate reading on screen, so I'm looking forward to reading it 'properly' on paper...

I bought a large tub of the original Pre Alpin Testudo several years ago at a terrarium fair in Germany. It went down well and was great rainy day alternative to collecting weeds in the rain. If I'm honest I only used it here and there, maybe once every couple of weeks - not enough to notice any real difference. My tortoises would not eat it dry, but enjoyed it when moistened. Until these recent posts I had forgotten the name of it!

All the best
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Re: New feeding article based on recent field studies

Postby mark_w » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:00 pm

Joan wrote:
Anyone found anywhere to buy this apart from http://www.reptilica.co.uk where they charge £10 postage. I guess if you were stocking up for permanent use it's ok, but a bit much just see if they will eat it!


Joan I have ordered some from Reptilica. Although it says .co.uk, it is a German site and is sent from Germany. I order most of my 'dry goods' from Germany. I agree the postage from this site is steep but I added a few bits and pieces to make it worth while!

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Re: New feeding article based on recent field studies

Postby Joan » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:03 pm

mark_w wrote:
Joan wrote:
Anyone found anywhere to buy this apart from http://www.reptilica.co.uk where they charge £10 postage. I guess if you were stocking up for permanent use it's ok, but a bit much just see if they will eat it!


Joan I have ordered some from Reptilica. Although it says .co.uk, it is a German site and is sent from Germany. I order most of my 'dry goods' from Germany. I agree the postage from this site is steep but I added a few bits and pieces to make it worth while!

Mark.


Thanks Mark!
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Re: New feeding article based on recent field studies

Postby Dave K » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:24 pm

Hi Joan,

As Mark has says the postage is quite high (£20+ for a 20kg order I made) but they are the only supplier I've found with easy UK delivery. If you do order, I'd skip the 600g tin and go for the 1000g bag. Its a nice tin but a bit expensive. :)

I personally think the pre alpin herb product is pretty good, as is the fibre mix. The standard pre alpin appears to be mainly grass content to me. Still useful but not as varied a mix of plants.
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